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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:11 am 
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exitsanity wrote:
In one statement you say that seeing scores allows a team to dictate the outcome of the next game. In a following one you say 'pay more attention in your games!'. You're using contradictory arguments to try and prove a point.

It doesn't prevent tactics.

Team A can decide "Hey we don't want Team C in finals with us, let's trade bases with Team B". That tactic works in both hidden scores or revealed scores formats. Nothing about hiding scores prevents tactics.


They're completely different!

One relies on reading the game to educationally guess you're position compared to the other teams. This can be wrong!

One provides 100% certainty over you're position compared to the other teams.


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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:25 am 
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My greatest arguement for showing scores is I have 0 confidence the scores for nexus are correct. I know they are wrong at times so I would want to see scores until I know the scoreboard is 100% correct. Which until it goes wi-fi I don't believe it will, the radio is crap.


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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Can we at least agree to stop using the word 'collusion' since not a single example anyone has given even fits the definition?

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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Assassin wrote:
Can we at least agree to stop using the word 'collusion' since not a single example anyone has given even fits the definition?


How do you figure?


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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:37 am 
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Assassin wrote:
Can we at least agree to stop using the word 'collusion' since not a single example anyone has given even fits the definition?


No :los_thefinger:

Gumby wrote:
One relies on reading the game to educationally guess you're position compared to the other teams. This can be wrong!


No offense intended mate, and while I may not be a zone player only having just over a half dozen zone tournaments under my belt, I can not agree. I have seen more than enough examples of these guesses being wrong as a result of technical difficulties to make me wary of trusting the game computer over experienced tag players perceptions. I have had both happen to me, and teammates, and witnessed as a marshal, situations wherein a base was tagged and destroyed by a player yet the points were never awarded on the score board. Naturally this can be immediately addressed if necessary. However hiding scores means it is not until a game or two later that one can address it, and the task becomes far more difficult to validate claims etc. Pretty much as stated here:

Big Pun wrote:
My greatest arguement for showing scores is I have 0 confidence the scores for nexus are correct. I know they are wrong at times so I would want to see scores until I know the scoreboard is 100% correct. Which until it goes wi-fi I don't believe it will, the radio is crap.


The system is not perfect, and shit happens that throws the game off. People may be guessing correctly how the game went, but the game computer may not be scoring correctly how the game went. It is much easier a task to deal with that game by game, than after a series is played.

You simply can not blindly trust the accuracy of a computer system when you have situations such as the bases above, or another time when I witnessed a player who received a scorecard with no tags on his laser, who had opponents from both other teams swear that they tagged his laser, and he admitted to having seen his laser be tagged. Something is clearly wrong, and should not be allowed to go by blindly without review. :smt017: Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:11 am 
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Aztec wrote:
Gumby wrote:
One relies on reading the game to educationally guess you're position compared to the other teams. This can be wrong!


No offense intended mate, and while I may not be a zone player only having just over a half dozen zone tournaments under my belt, I can not agree. I have seen more than enough examples of these guesses being wrong as a result of technical difficulties to make me wary of trusting the game computer over experienced tag players perceptions. I have had both happen to me, and teammates, and witnessed as a marshal, situations wherein a base was tagged and destroyed by a player yet the points were never awarded on the score board. Naturally this can be immediately addressed if necessary. However hiding scores means it is not until a game or two later that one can address it, and the task becomes far more difficult to validate claims etc. Pretty much as stated here:


I can't help but think it's a custom format/script issue or another person shooting the base at the same time as the said person is shooting it.

To my knowledge... We haven't come across these issues at any of the tournaments we've held in Australia. Worlds/Nexus Gen2 was my first experience with 'significant' pack/system difficulties at a tournament in my 10 years of playing.

Or... It could be that all us Oz Zonies have a blind trust that the figures we see are true and correct.

Nevertheless, I don't think this has anything to do with whether showing the scores is a good idea or not.


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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:20 pm 
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This is a nexus issue.. Not Gen 1 or 2... It's an issue all the way around. Sadly enough :(


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 Post subject: Re: The never ending thread about playoff systems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:54 am 
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Gumby wrote:
I can't help but think it's a custom format/script issue or another person shooting the base at the same time as the said person is shooting it.

To my knowledge... We haven't come across these issues at any of the tournaments we've held in Australia. Worlds/Nexus Gen2 was my first experience with 'significant' pack/system difficulties at a tournament in my 10 years of playing.

Or... It could be that all us Oz Zonies have a blind trust that the figures we see are true and correct.

Nevertheless, I don't think this has anything to do with whether showing the scores is a good idea or not.


I would presume that most likely it is related to trust. It is also possible that you have just been lucky and it has not happened to you. Random chance can be a bitch and all, maybe she just really hit the USA hard there.

Either way, while some issues can certainly be explained by random happenstance of stray shots and the like (particularly in relation to tag locations on the packs). In at least two cases however I know for certain, as from the witnesses, that X amount of times a particular base was destroyed and reset over the course of the game, but only X-1 times accounted for on the scores.

As to why I feel that would affect this discussion, as stated previously, it would seem to me that transparency is the best way to allow people to address incorrect outcomes before time and events get too far along and another game is played, muddying the waters so to speak as to the specifics.

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